7 years ago
#1
Hello dear Alls,
In the last few months, I've been trying to help Peter & his wonderful team - as much as I could...
There have been long discussing views , important to my eyes, to whether this site should go on , or not.
As a French member, i've tried to upload ws into the French page, but ...........I've discovered NO ONE IS FEELING CONCERNED, no one is - even - being able to say thank you...!!!!!!!
I tried to send some ws on the FRench site - As I was feeling guilty not to do so on the English one ..........Peter & team solved the problem when there was one ( ;-)))) ..........But, in the end, looking at what people do, I'm not sure I wish to help anymore....
I first thought people would be clever enough to post & register & be members of this wonderful site; ... I'm afraid I've become more ....aware ....& get the idea that - whatever we can do to help, people are here just ' looking ' for new ws, download them - without saying thank you - & leave...............
Thus, I'll have to "re"consider my membership here : I'll never let Peter & friends down, so............
I won't post new ws again, as I am getting tired of non-educated members....
If you do happen to disagree with me, thx for letting me know; & for having a nice discussion about that topic. From now on, I'll always be here to help the members who created this site, but....I won't send any of my ws to people who - just ! - don't deserve them.
Up to you to judge - so easy :-)))! - & , please, up to you to ask others to behave. I won't be with you, this LAST time....
Best wishes,
Sylvie
7 years ago
#2
Dear Sylvie,

I quite understand what you feel. But I must tell that the situation was quite different when the French section was just launched. But it changed and I had the same emotions as you about a year ago. It seemed that most people just stared to come to the French section, to download anything they wanted and to go away without saying thank you or even liking the wss. (I concede that maybe some of them didn't find my work useful and dowloaded it just to have a look at it.) Of course there were thankful teachers, who always said "thank you" and even told me about my misprints and mistakes and I am really very thankful to them for that. But unfortunately they are the minority now. I even stopped posting my work and deleted some of my ppts, which were downloaded daily without any feedback.

But I decided to go on sharing because I love this site and it gives me inspiration. I am so thankful to Peter for believing in me and for inviting me here 5 years ago. Moreover, I am thankful for opening French section (I was one of the teachers who asked him about that). That is why I can't possibly stop helping. I don't know if I am going to share everything I've got as I used to do, but I will share.

I won't critisize you, dear Sylvie, for your decision because I do understand your point. I wish I saw your French wss (I don't visit French section so often as I used to do), otherwise I would definetely thank you. I think that French section lacks such contributors like you and (I don't know if I have the right to say it here), to tell you the truth, I am a bit sad about your decision, but I do respect it.

Many French contributors stopped sharing. I don't know the reasons why, maybe they are busy, but maybe they feel the same as we do. Something should be done with all that situation.

Best wishes,
Natalia
7 years ago
#3
P.S. There could be another simple reason why there are a few likes and thanks: people who have premium accounts can download wss without going to the ws page, so we can see mostly downloads and just a few likes and thanks.
7 years ago
#4
I am neither surprised nor amazed by your comments Dear Sylvie but just popped in to send you belated happy new year message. I do so wish this site to go on existing too yet when I think about the idea of sharing recent changes in this site do not reason with my beliefs.
7 years ago
#5
If you want to comment or say thank you for this worksheet ''Please Go Premium To Enjoy This Future'' Happy New Year and Cheers to ALL!!
7 years ago
#6
To everybody who's not in a rush to stop by the forum,

Since there are only about 40 teachers who subscribed for a Premium membership, it cannot be the cause of the relative scarcity of likes and thank you's on the site.

I have no clue why it seems like there used to be more user involvement years ago, please tell me what changed, because we can try to change it back. Anyways, I tend to think both the lack of interest in the Premium features and low feedback rates derive from the same roots. In my view, they both have to do with the free culture of the internet - which, by the way, I am a big supporter of. However, it has its downsides. The "internet folk" have grown really used to getting content for free online. And the more free "goodies" out there, the less time people seem to find to pause and think about who to be thankful to. Or join forum discussions. Look how many of us our talking here on the forum. Of course, we teachers, especially in some countries, are really worn out and exploited, but you know, I too wish we had a more vibrant community here.

I am open to whatever you suggest to foster creating a more cohesive community. Because once there is a community, people will recognize others' contributions in the right way. Perhaps it's safe to say that we, the developers of this site, have been too focused on the materials and the downloading experience, and it's high time to think of the authors more.

First, at the end of December we started to give the top 200 contributors who did the most for the site a complimentary yearly subscription as a small token of our appreciation. (I'm not finished yet, because it's a very time-consuming procedure, but I'm halfway through the list.)

Ideas
  1. I'd like to create an honors wall better than the current Members section, a full list where all authors are listed. Although it's not a race, I think it's nice to see how popular your resources are.
  2. I would like to pop up a little feedback form randomly to those who downloaded a resource to say something about how they liked a particular worksheet, or how they used it in class. I am, as an author, always thrilled to read that kind of feedback in comments when people say 'I used your worksheet in class, and my class was laughing a lot. What really worked was ...' If we can keep employing Balint, our coder, this year, I definitely want to get this programmed.
  3. You should also give us input about the Thank you button. Does it only promote laziness? Should users take the time to write out the simple message of thank you in their own words?
  4. I think we should have a regular feature about one of our authors, say once every week or every two weeks, a little interview kind of thing. If any one of you has a journalistic vein, please let me know.

But I'm just one man, and my imagination is limited, and I'm pretty sure you as authors could think of a lot of other things to promote involvement of the majority of colleagues who are always in a rush, so that we would have more of the appreciative members. Please post your ideas here or PM me, or write me through the new support line in MyPage/billing-support.

I just want to keep one thing as it always was: downloads must stay free and unlimited, because that is the mission of this site, spreading the benefit of our work beyond our own classrooms. You know that there are grateful teachers here, and like in our classrooms, if there are at least a few good students, we feel that it's worth being a teacher for them. As for me, I will keep sharing my stuff and putting my work and energy in this site for the great colleagues who come here to teach better and hold better classes tomorrow.

Bless up,
Peter
7 years ago
#7
reply to maker1's post #5
Excuse me?
7 years ago
#8
This message was meant for Sylvie. I accept it was a cynical remark and as she preferred writing to me on the forum a while back so did I. There is nothing more to it.
7 years ago
#10
reply to maker1's post #8
No problem, but what are you really trying to say? I understand that you think the Premium is not a good idea to finance the site, but then what do you think would be a solid and reliable form of financing for the site? How would you collect the money to pay for the expenses? What's your vision?
7 years ago
#11
40 premium members multiplied by 25 makes 1000 Euros. Would that finance the site. If people want this site to live as before would donate. What else? How does ESLPrintables manage to stay alive? They are not asking for anything apart from voluntary contributions.
7 years ago
#12
reply to maker1's post #11
Dear maker1,

ESLPrintables is ONE site for teachers of ONE language. iSLCollective is ONE site for teachers of SIX languages. And, as far as I can understand, there can be some more sections for teachers of other languages. As far as I remember all the problems with server e started after launching other sections because the number of visitors grew incredibly fast. To avoid server problems site needed money for payment for the functions wich helped the site run (sorry, I am not good at Internet vocabulary). So let's not blame Peter for his kindness and outgoingness! Some of language sections here are UNIQUE and bu now they can be found ONLY HERE. So let's stop being sarcastic, please!

As far as I understood, Sylvie told about the problems with politness in the French section and I supported her because it is really a problem there, that's all. I think I should have written it there but not here. But I didn't know that it might cause accusations and sarcasm. I am very sorry for that.



To all:

Any big community needs money, even Wikipedia. Some sites live on donations, some sites live on tonns of annoying adds fiiling all the page, some sites create extra premium functions (e.g busuu. com). Some sites combine all these sources. I think premium variant is rather fair: people pay and get something for their money. Besides they know that they support the site by that. So this can be called a kind of charity. There are people for whom it's very important to know that.

I know that money is money and for some people even €25 euro is a considerable sum. But now it is possible to pay for a month (€5) or for six months (€15). €5 is the sum that I send monthly for the charity organisations which helps children. €5 is one hour of my work, so I think it is quite possible to pay this sum once a month to this site to support its existence. Because without money it will just disapear and all the teachers in the world who teach French, Spanish, Russia, Portugese and even English will lose it forever! Think about that. This site saves your time, gives you ideas and inspiration, your pupils get interested in you, in your subject, they start loving learning the language because you give them interesting materials, and some of these materials (not all of them) can be found ONLY HERE!

As I have already mentioned, I will go on helping the site with everything I can even if the problems with politeness go on, because I remember how hard it was for me to find anything for learning English and French when I was a pupil. I know how hard it is for Russian learners to find wss and ppts similar to the ones we have in nglish section, so I'll go on helping Russian section as much as I can. Let's remember that we share our work not only with our collegues, but also with their pupils, that is with children (I mean, mostly with children).

Dear Peter, I really appriciate everything you do for the site. Thank you very much.

Best wishes,
Natalia
7 years ago
#13
reply to maker1's post #11
Of course, it wouldn't. But what's the difference between voluntary premium membership or voluntary donations, in your view? Since both are voluntary, why would people have a problem seeing both as a way of supporting the site?
7 years ago
#14
I am in no way undermining your hardwork for creating such a wonderful site for us teachers where we can share our work and help one another. In fact I do appreciate it greatly but this is a forum where everyone can air their views and that is simply what I am doing and I feel I have the right to do so just like other members have done so upto now. Who is right or who is wrong is not the point.
As for the voluntary premium membership, it sounds more like privileged membership for the work of members who upload their work without any expectations other than sharing. Since the introduction of premium membership things have changed immensely in favour of a few privileged members and everybody must have noticed that. What do I suggest; there is no perfect formula but I believe while trying to do something better for some it shouldn't be made worse for others.
I can't get myself to accept the fact that members who hardly contribute to the site yet enjoy all the luxury of this site not through sharing but by cash.
Nonetheless I don't think the site will be able to solve financial problems by privileged membership and soon will have to ask for donations yet again but in the process many good contributors of the site are going to be disheartened and will cease to share their work.
I have said my piece for the last time. I don't expect anyone to agree with me but I do expect them to respect my views.
7 years ago
#15
reply to maker1's post #14
Dear Maker1!

Don't get me wrong. I have no problems with views differing from mine. I just think it's good to have a conversation about the future of the site. See my comments below.
"but I believe while trying to do something better for some it shouldn't be made worse for others."
I don't see how we made the user experience worse for anybody? Anyone can still make an unlimited number of searches for free. Anyone can still download unlimited worksheets for free. Anyone can see the same worksheet previews as before. Anyone can use the forum. Anyone can send and receive internal mails. Anyone can ask us for technical support for free, and we do try to help everybody.
I can't get myself to accept the fact that members who hardly contribute to the site yet enjoy all the luxury of this site not through sharing but by cash.
As grateful as we are for worksheet contributions, the site has bills to pay. Those who have donated in the past and those who subscribe now for a Premium are the ones paying these bills for the benefit of all the community. Let's all be grateful to them.

As for the authors, I certainly do hope that they won't leave the site. Like I said earlier, we're giving our 200 top authors a complimentary premium. We're finishing this process this weekend. So far we have gotten back largely positive comment from them, saying they were happy to have received it and telling me they wish to keep contributing. As long as there are only few dissenting views, we will have to assume that the majority are OK with the new system.

In closing, I think it's too early to say if this voluntary membership experiment will work for the site or not. You're right. If it doesn't, then our only option left will be to rely on donations again. I will have no issue with conceding if it turns out to be an unsustainable financial model; at least we've given it a try to put the site on a more solid foundation.

It's like all members are now voting on their preferred model with their wallet. The outcome will be clear and obvious, and whatever works for the site best, that's the direction we'll go. I have faith that as long as people want the site to continue, it will, this way or that way. I know that's what you want, too, so I can accept that we have differing ideas regarding one particular matter. Thank you for caring for the site and sharing your thoughts!

Bless up,
Peter
7 years ago
#16
Dear Peter,
It seems that the functions of "thank you" and "like" don't work in French section. I press them but my "thanks" and "likes" do not appear. The only way to thank somebody is leaving a comment. But automatic "thank you" cannot be done.
7 years ago
#17
reply to Sonn's post #16
Thanks, I notified Balint of this.
7 years ago
#18

VOLUNTEER SERVICE:
iSLCollective Twitter for English


Dear All,

Kifissia has been doing both iSLCollective Facebook and Twitter for English for years, and she would like to focus on just Facebook. We are grateful to her for all the help so far.

So now we have an opening for the admin of our Twitter, in case anyone is interested.

So what's it about? It's basically our way of keeping our Twitter followers posted about site news, the best uploads, teaching ideas, etc. plus any ideas of your own. Kifissia has tweeted the printable and projectable of the day, besides occasional useful links for ESL and EFL teachers, inspirational quotes, etc.,

Our Twitter person is our official volunteer. Your name will be featured in the About Us section, and we can also certify this service of yours to your future employers if you'd like to put it in your CV.

Please let me know if you'd like to become a member of our volunteer corps.

Bless up,
Peter



7 years ago
#19
reply to Sonn's post #16

Hi, I just checked it and I couldn't reproduce the problem. I tried it on this worksheet and I could Like it and the THX button worked too. See screens below. I can also see your avatar among those who used the thank you button successfully, so maybe it does work, but since you have to refresh the page to see your thank you there? (Your like is supposed to be displayed without refreshing the page.)

BTW, this is another improvement that we launched recently: if you like the page or click the thank you button, you can get back to the previous page where you came from with one click. (Last year, if you did any of these actions, for technical reasons you had to click many times to get back.)

If it still doesn't work on your computer, let's discuss this further to find any potential bugs.

Bless up,
Peter


Likes:



Thank you's:

7 years ago
#20
reply to Kisdobos's post #19
I tried to use the functions with other files and it seems that I have problems with this wonderful ws only:
http://fr.islcollective.com/resources/printables/worksheets_doc_docx/sch%C3%A9ma_formation_du_conditionnel/avanc%C3%A9-c1-guide/64613

I've sent thanks 3 times and I can't see any. I wrote my "thank you" message by using the form for comments. Besides I have problems with opening this file on my PC.
7 years ago
#21
I managed to send "thank you"
7 years ago
#22
reply to Sonn's post #21
Glad to hear. Maybe try to refresh your browser in such mysterious cases. Peter
7 years ago
#23
reply to Sonn's post #2
Dear Natalia,
I thank you for your reply - & I must add I feel so "guilty" about my last post. I wish I were a better person, but , sometimes, I get angry & let people know...!
I do apologise before wonderful people like you - & do hope you'll forgive my " angry" posts"!!!
If you don't, I'd understand ;-)))
I - sometimes - loose my nerves - I know I shouldn't! - when I see people not being able to say THANK YOU.........
Wish I were a better person ;-)))
Sending my best wishes - & regards
from Northern France,
I think I'll do the same - dear Natalia, reconsider my views, & send my work, ....into the FRench section.
Sorry Sylv'
7 years ago
#24
Dear Sylvie,
Everything is OK. Please, check your inbox to read my message.
Best wishes,
Natalia
7 years ago
#25
Thank you, Natalia,
As a native speaker, I'll try to upload in the French section - from now on...I hope it will be helpful for some colleagues.
;-)
Sylvie
7 years ago
#26
Hi! I've been uploading worksheets in the English, the French and the Spanish section so far and I must say that people who download in the French and the Spanish sections are not very used to say 'Thank you'. I've complained about it in the forum several times but it is a waste of time. Unfortunately, this 'thank you' issue is related with politeness, and with respect for other people's work and not a lot people consider that saying thank you is really helpful for us, the worksheets creators. I've reduced the number of worksheets a lot because I am busy at the moment but I must admit that if I received more thank you comments, I'd feel so good that I'd upload worksheets more often. I hope liette and Sonn go on uploading Worksheets because I LOVE THEIR WORK!!!
7 years ago
#27
reply to morewk's post #26

Hi, I know, you're right. People are in such a rush, but that doesn't make us feel better. Anyhow, I'd like to believe that people can be educated, and then they will be more conscious, and pause to think about all the goodwill that makes their download possible. I have an idea that after a certain number of downloads, we could pop up a message reminding members not be in such a hurry that they don't have a few seconds to thank the authors. Is that a good idea?

Also, could it be a problem that the new Thank you! button says THX? Should it be Thank you! again?

Bless up,
Peter


7 years ago
#28
Hello, again! I like your idea about the reminding message, Peter and I think that THX is understood... well I understood it but you're right, maybe some people don't understand it...though, if they hadn't known where the thank you button is, they would have asked about it, don't you think so?
Regards,
Begoña
7 years ago
#29
I have just realized that in the French and the Spanish sections the 'thank you' button says 'THX'! Maybe this is the problem since thank you is MERCI in French and GRACIAS in Spanish. It would be great if you could change THX into MER or GRA, or something similar.
7 years ago
#30
reply to morewk's post #29
That's right. I completely forgot about translating that one. I will make up for that, possibly tomorrow. Thanks for the suggestion. Peter
7 years ago
#31
I've just been reading your comments and would like to add mine.

First of all regarding Peter's ideas:

  • Whereas I think the honours wall could be a nice idea for some it could push aside those uploading few but GOOD worksheets.
  • As for the feedback the idea of a pop-up message reminding people could be the solution. No button to hit, just a few words to say what they thought of the worksheet. Adding how they used it and how it worked in class could be a good follow-up, but I doubt teachers would have the time or even think about doing it afterwards.

Secondly about financial contributions to this site:

  • I think everyone should pay or nobody. I don't think it's fair for those not contributing (in one way or another) to be able to download unlimited documents (the majority don’t even upload anything at all!). I know how you feel, Peter, about trying to keep this site free, but it isn't anymore, is it? Those who pay are paying for those who don't.

There are so many good things about this site:

  • I also share my worksheets with several other sites, for example, eslprintables.com and what I like here is that I can share ALL my ws even those which are too heavy for eslprintables.
  • The fact that it covers 6 languages is in itself a great asset. A lot of us teach more than one language, after all!

Let’s hope we can keep it going!


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